(Back Ground Azaan, By Brother Yusuf Islam)
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(Dr. Mohammed) I now call upon Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri to present his response to Dr. Zakir Naik -Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri.
(Mr. Zaveri) First of all, I really thank Dr. Zakir Naik for giving me the choice whether I would like to still remain a Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarian – Thank you very much. I would request Mr. Coordinator that would you like to have the rebuttal or my comments now, or shall we have… because after all you know this is a…
(Dr. Mohammed) Now it is better you know we will….
(Mr. Zaveri) Let us have some question answer if you think.
(Dr. Mohammed) Question-Answer… we will have in the third session… We have three-part session – Yes, Mr. Zaveri you can continue.
(Mr. Zaveri) Any how, we are totally at the command of the coordinator, so I will obey.
(Dr. Mohammed) No… as decided you know… the same format we will keep.
(Mr. Zaveri) I will obey.
(Dr. Mohammed) I will not allow Dr. Zakir also to change the format… I will object.
(Mr. Zaveri) Now, first thing that I will say – its not a question of whether one is logical or illogical, and its not a question of the choice that one makes – as I said is my talk earlier, everything is relative, and you have to understand this topic from that perspective. Now one thing that I will very strongly object with respect to Dr. Zakir’s… ‘That not a single religion prohibits Non-Veg.’… I am expert… I can say because I am a student, I have done M.A. in Jainiology – I can say from my Religious point of view, that Lord Mahavir and our all 24 Tirtankaras, very vehemently prohibited Non-Veg. food – I have already given you some quotations. You see, a mainly argument of Dr. Dean Ornish is based on the fact that Non-Veg. food contains excessive protein, cholesterol, and saturated fat. So that is why he said that for healthy and peaceful living, you must have Non-Veg. diet… No… Veg. diet. Now he said that plant has also got life – No, it not only proved by Dr. Jagdish Chandra Bose, but even our Lord Mahavir… he stated 2500 years ago, that not only plant, air, water, fire, minerals of the earth, they all have life. He has not said that you are allowed to kill this life and maintain yourself – but he was a practical Tirtankara… so he said that those who cannot renounce this world and became Jain Muni. You know Jain Munis they do not even kill plant Vegetation, or even other living beings for their food – they beg the food, which is cooked in our house. We will not go into that controversy… that even you kill it, and then give them – that is a separate story… but the teachings of Mahavir are very clear… that you shall not harm any living being whether animate or inanimate. Now because of certain constraint, for those people who cannot renounce the world, he has said that at least you can avoid essential killing. He has said that even if you… when you have food made out of plant it is violence, it is ‘Hinsa’ – but it is necessary… so what I prohibit is unnecessary killing. Friends, this a very sharp distinction, but very important distinction we should make… that if the alternative is available, we should not go for that alternative which compels us to kill and eat our own fellow creatures. Another thing he said ‘Plants’… in my talk I stated about plant food, and he said that ‘Even a lizard can grow a tail’ – that is the only exception. The plants… you pluck fruits – they will give you more fruits, you cut their branches … more branches will grow. See… there is no end to such argument… so let us restrict our argument to this. About medical science… and he has rightly stated that medically also, he has given certain things – I have also stated. Now it is for the enlightened audience to decide whether the scientific facts that I have given are correct, or he has given – it is okay… it is a question of argument. Now he has conveniently forgotten – please excuse me… I am telling because, I am trying to rebut your thing – the psychological aspect… when we consume animal food, we also inherit certain animal instincts. What have your to say? – Please in your rebuttal you can say that. Now, doctors also, most of the doctors prescribe raw Vegetable – Now coming to cooking most of the doctors prescribe raw Vegetables, for healthy diet. Only that food or cereals which will not be proper for a human being to consume raw… that only can be cooked. But as far as possible and in our Indian Vegetarian Congress, we always, whenever we have a meeting, we have most of the food raw, uncooked and that is more healthy, according to us. About the books, these books were not given by me to Dr. Naik, and it was given by my friend Mr. Salecha, who approached me – that is okay… it is nothing very important. Now I will tell you one thing… that you cannot alter the truth by just loud applause. Okay, if you are impressed by my argument, you may applause me, or if you are impressed by the other argument, you can applause that. But I firmly believe, that just because some arguments are appealing to you and you applause them loudly, will not alter the truth. And I will… I have referred to about one book – One Dr. Deepak Chopra… he has also written many books – he is also a physician, practicing physician like Dr. Dean Ornish. He has also conducted researches, and he has come out with a theory that your food will have a terrific effect an your impulses and urges, your physical development, psychological development, and emotional development. You know most of the psychological and emotional distortions, are because of the flesh food that one eats, and that is why it is prohibited. It is totally illogical to say that by eating animals, you are helping Vegetarians.
We should not worry about the animal population, because nature is quite capable of taking care. Why? Because we are… because we are rearing more animals, animals for killing -that is why, then if we are not doing it, look at the jungle – Everywhere the natural cycle is there, balancing will take care of itself… nobody has to worry about it. Now as per the history that Mr. Trivedi also referred, and also Dr. Zakir – Now I will tell from Jain historical point of view, that is our Jain scriptures – It is mentioned very clearly that the people… those persons who were living in prehistoric stage, they lived under a tree and they were sufficiently provided by trees – they did not have to go for any killings. Friends, I am of course given more time, but I am, I really personally feel that lets not have a sort of a dialogue or arguments between… I would like very much the audience to participate and have more time for question answer – thank you.
(Dr. Mohammed) Thank you Mr. Zaveri – We have 5 minutes more… he has taken 5 minutes less. Now, I call upon Dr. Zakir Naik to present a response to Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri… for 15 minutes only.
‘Alhamdullillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam Ala Rasullillah Wa Aala Aalihi Was Sahabihi Ajmayeen – Ama Bad’.
Auzbilla Himanesh Shaitan Ir Rajim, Bismillah Hir Rehmaan Nir Raheem.
(Arabic….) Respected people on the dais, and my respected elders and my dear brothers and sisters, I welcome once again all of you with the Islamic greetings… ‘As Salaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu’ – May Peace, Mercy and Blessings of Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala be on all of you. I have not conveniently forgotten anything. If you realize, I spoke may be a half minute more than the time allotted – so how can he say… ‘I conveniently forgot?’ If you give me even five hours more, if you are willing to stay – because you are the person who kept time restrictions… you know less time… Thirty. I had to bargain for fifty minutes – I would love to speak for two hours – even full day. I can do it, because I am a marathon speaker… Alhamdullilah – I am a Non-Vegetarian.
Mr. Zaveri said, that I said that ‘No religion prohibits Non-Veg.’. I never said… ‘No Religion’ – I said… ‘No major Religion’ – It is being recorded… ‘No major Religion’… and Jainism is not a major Religion, according to the books you gave me. You gave certain books – Jains are only 0.4% of India – 0.4 , less than 1 percent – Can you call it a major Religion in India? – leave aside the world – World out of the question… Negligible – I am very clear cut in my statement. Regarding the argument on Jainism… I can reply but the coordinator won’t give me permission… I am restricted to Islam – you know I can reply even on Jainism… I am a student of comparative Religion.
(Dr. Mohammed) Excuse me sir – you cannot interfere when the speaker is speaking.
(Dr. Zakir) Brother is saying… ‘I did not say’ – you can very well see the Video cassette… ‘There is not a single major religion which bans or prohibits, all Non-Veg. food in general’ – You can see the Video cassette.
(Dr. Mohammed) You can ask the question, in question time.
(Dr. Zakir) Do not get irritated… the diet will help you… do not get irritated.
Brother Rashmibhai Zaveri said I did not answer – whether you get animal instinct.
I said in my lecture, I think you did not hear – I said… ‘We eat peaceful animals like Goat, Sheep, because we want to be peaceful’… and therefore when I came, starting I always said… ‘Peace be on all of you’. Further, he said I did not state ‘Dr. Dean Ornish’. I yet challenge him… if his book is referred by any authentic medical college, authentic book – not just dietary books… that answer I already gave… by Dr. Willam T. Jarves – ‘Even scientists and medical professionals are not immune to the ideological thinking of the Vegetarians’ – They are not immune. It is not a medical book… he may have written a diet book. I am very clear in my words – I do not mix words. And Dean Ornish, whatever his name is… may be very famous… I do not know him … I am hearing for the first time… I do not know – I yet ask him to prove and check whether that book is referred, as a text book… not as a medical book… a text medical book, in a college – that shows the authenticity. He said… ‘We should not worry about the cattle – Nature will take care’ – It is you’ll who are so much worrying – we are not worrying. Nature made them in such a way that the moment you kill them, they will again come – God is the Creator – Allah made them. If we kill Lion, Tiger, they will become extinct… therefore we cannot have their food. The cattle… we can have – God has made them that way – If we don’t follow the instruction of God, they will be over populated. And regarding cutting of plants, what he said… ‘You know people say that if we have plants, the mother is yet alive’ – So in that way the offspring of the Cow, of the Goat, the Calves… that means can we eat them? Yes! Because mother is yet alive… the Cow is yet alive, and when the offspring becomes a mother, we can also kill the mother. So even if I agree with his logic… ‘The plants survives’ – in the animals, more lives are surviving than the plants – if I agree with his logic. Further more I said that best is, ‘Prevention is better than cure’. I agree with Dr. Ornish when he says that you know Vegetarian diet is helpful for certain disease – Even I advice that… where did I say no? But the topic is not, ‘Which food is healthier?’ – But making a statement… ‘It is, banned for human beings’. I challenge any authentic medical book… I am a doctor… not books – whether given by Rushabh Foundation or Indian Vegetarian Congress – whatever it is… these books are stating things which are unfound, ill tested, unproved. There is a Islamic method of ‘Prevention is better than cure’, which will answer most of your questions – The Islamic method is there of ‘Prevention is better than cure’.
When we slaughter the animal, we do the ‘Zabihah’ – we cut the throat, and the wind pipe, and the vessels of the neck, without damaging the spinal cord – otherwise the nerve going to the heart may get severed – there will be cardiac arrest. When the spinal cord is not damaged and the vessels of the neck are slit open along with the throat and the wind pipe, the heart is pumping – most of the blood flows out of the body. Blood is a very good media of germ and bacteria. If you slaughter the animal in this way, most of the diseases transmitted by blood, many which you named, can be eliminated, can be prevented – the meat remains fresh for a longer time. If it is slaughtered in the Islamic method… and people say… ‘Oh! It is merciless … you know you all are so mercilessly killing… it dies of pain’. When we slaughter in the Islamic method, when we cut the blood vessels of the neck, the blood supply going to the nerves which is responsible for pain is severed – So the animal does not feel pain. The animal kicks and withers… you know why? Due to the gush of flow. The animal does not feel pain – it is contracting and relaxing because there is lack of blood in that part of the body. The animal does not die of pain – it dies a painless death… painless, painless. We eliminate most of the disease transmitted by blood. Secondly there are many countries in the world and many people who raise animals, they give them hormones. And one was mentioned, by Mr. Zaveri – he did not name – it is called as ‘DES’ Diacecerol Beseserol. It is a hormone injected to cattle so that they become fat, and you get more money for flesh – This is haram in Islam. ‘Carcinogenic hormones’ – if injected animals, even if you slaughter by the ‘Zabihah’ method, it is yet haram. It is ‘Zabihah’, but not halal… It is ‘Zabihah’, and haram. If the cattle are injected with hormones you are not allowed to have those hormones, neither are we allowed to have Cows, which are fed with Non-Veg. – because the Prophet said… ‘Any animal that is fed with Non-Veg…. it is prohibited for you’.
After that – if you take care of hygienic conditions, and cook the meat very well, most of the diseases which Mr. Zaveri spoke off, not all – Most of them will be eliminated.
And in the Non-Veg… flesh food… the most dangerous, which is commonly eaten, is pork. It has more than 70 different diseases which you can get, if you inject pork – more than 70 different diseases – and one of them is ‘Ischemic heart disease’ which he spoke about. Because pork has more of fat building material than muscle building materials – It gets deposited on the walls of the vessels causing Arthrocerouis, hyper tension, etc. That is the reason in the Qur’an, no less than four different places in Surah Baqrah, Chapter No. 2, Verse No. 173, in Surah Maidah, Chapter No. 5, Verse No. 3, in Surah Anam, Chapter No. 6, Verse No. 145 and Surah Nahl, Chapter No. 16, Verse No. 115, it says…(Arabic…)
‘Forbidden for you for food are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and any food on which, any name besides God’s name has been invoked’.
It is haram – So we abstain from it, and we prevent several diseases of Non-Veg. Quran says in Surah Taha, Chapter No. 20, Verse No. 81,
‘Eat of the food We have provided for you in sustenance, but commit no excesses there in’.
Most of the diseases what Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri spoke about is due to excessive eating. Even if you eat excessive Veg. food, you will have many diseases – I will not say… not have Veg. food – I am a doctor, I am not an ideological, neither a fanatic Non-Vegetarian. So if you prevent eating in excess, most of the diseases will be prevented. If you follow the Islamic guidelines, slaughter in the Islamic method, remove the blood, do not give hormones, cook the food very well, hygienic conditions, avoid pork, do not eat in excess, most of the diseases can be prevented – It answers most of his arguments. Few are yet remaining – if time permits during question answer time if you ask, I will reply. Do you know, they are talking about healthy food – healthy food – talking about all research and experiments – I will talk something which is a fact. According to Dr. William – Again very famous person… Dr. William, he says that…
‘Vegetarian food extends the life of a human being for more than six years’.
If you have Veg. food, as compared to Non-Veg. food, you will live six years longer – Again hypothesis… hypothesis. If you analyze, a data was collected about all the people who lived above 100 years from 1932 to 1952, and on this data a person by the name of Osegares – he wrote a book, ‘Living to be Hundred’ – 1200 people who did… and why they did it – Everything is mentioned in it… even diet is mentioned. Do you know out of 1200 people, how many were Vegetarian? – How many… guess? 1000… Four! Four! … Four. This survey was not done to prove Veg. food, or Non-Veg. food – It was done for other reasons… but even the diet was mentioned. It is a fact… It is not a research – It is a fact. Out of 1200 people who lived in a span of 20 years, over 100 years, only four were Vegetarian. You know alcohol? – Alcohol alone… it is a Veg. diet, or no? Alcohol is Veg. or Non-Veg.?… Veg! – from juices of fruits. And the disease that are caused by alcohol alone is more than all the Non-Veg. diseases put together – One Vegetable diet! So just for alcohol, I cannot say that all Vegetable food should be banned. Today scientists… and even he will agree… it is mentioned in his book also – the cause of maximum deaths today is, alcohol… Number one – So I do not ban all Veg. food. What do I say? – As Qur’an says in Surah Maidah, Chapter No. 5, Verse No. 90…(Arabic…) That…
‘O! ye who believe, verily intoxicants and gambling and idol worship and dedication of stones and divination of arrows – these are Satan’s handiwork – Abstain from it, that ye may prosper’.
Alcohol is a Satan’s handiwork… abstain from it. I have only prohibited Alcohol – not all Veg. food. And smoking… Second greatest cause of death in the world – Veg. or Non-Veg.? – Veg.! Can you prevent the Alcoholic disease? – Only when you can prevent, is when it is deferment – it ceases to be Alcohol. Can you prevent smoking disease? – Do not have tobacco – Only option is prohibition. If there is no prevention, then comes the question of prohibition – So alcohol is prohibited. There are more than 400 Fatwas by Islamic Scholars – ‘Smoking is prohibited’ because there is no prevention. You know Kesri Dal, Kesri Dal – Indian Government has banned it. It causes ‘Spastic Paraplegia’ staple food of North West, Indians! Banned, why? – It causes death also – ‘Spastic Paraplegia’. Alcohol – Many countries have banned including Saudi Arabia, including states in India have banned it. Smoking in Singapore is banned in public places, in Government places, in public transport. Kesri Dal – banned by India. If there is no prevention, then you can ban it. I do not know of a single Government that has banned all Non-Veg. food in general – Not a single. Yes! few Non-Veg. food like pork – Saudi Arabia has banned. There is no prevention – ban it! – If there is no prevention then you prohibit it. And the debate was not, ‘Which is better, which is healthier – Veg. or Non-Veg.?’ The debate was – ‘ Is Non-Veg. food permitted or prohibited?’ I gave a list of more than 20 points – So I can very well say that Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri conveniently stopped his talk five minutes before – not to answer these things – If you give me one hour more, I will continue speaking. Wild berries… they are poisonous, Stitch beans, Vegetables food… they are poisonous, Datura… poisonous. What is the solution?… Do not have it. You know ‘Water’ – Water has so many diseases transmitted – Cholera, Paratyphoid, Typhoid, it causes Amebiaces, Giadiasis, Round worm, Pin worm, Wild Hepetises – I can go on talking… only by water. What do you do? Do you ban water? – You prevent it… You purify the water… the diseases will be prevented. You know ‘Milk’ – Milk has so many diseases… Chizelia, Cholera, Paratyphoid, Typhoid, Tuberculosis, Salmonesis, Brusolosis – I can go on listing. What do you do? Do you ban Milk? What do you do? – You pasteurize it… You do not ban it… You do not prohibit it… It is un-medical. Whether milk is Non-Veg. or Veg. is a debatable topic – I won’t argue on that.
So if you cannot prevent the disease, then do you prohibit it? I have given various reasons, which Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri has not replied. There is not a single Government who has banned Non-Veg. food in general – There is not a single major Religion which has banned Non-Veg. food in general… therefore I say that Non-Veg. food is permitted – not prohibited. If I have hurt the feelings of any Vegetarian, while giving the replies to the speaker, I sincerely apologize from the bottom of my heart. I would like to end the talk by giving the quotation of the Glorious Qur’an, from Surah Isra, Chapter no. 17, Verse No. 81, which says… (Arabic)…
‘When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood is by its nature bound to perish’. Wa Akhirm Dawana Anil Hamdulillahi Rabbil Aalameen.
(Dr. Mohammed) Now, we begin the open question and answer Session.
To extract maximum benefit in the limited time that we have available in the Question and Answer Session, we expect the following rules to be observed – Your Question should be on the topic only: that Is ‘Is Non-Vegetarian Food Permitted Or Prohibited For A Human Being?’ – Questions out of the topic will not be permitted. Kindly state your question briefly and to the point – this is not a lecture time, neither a cross question time for the questioners. I repeat, kindly state your question briefly and to the point – this is not a lecture time neither a counter question time for the questioners. Mr. Zaveri and Dr. Zakir should answer comprehensively and each answer should not exceed five minutes. Four mikes have been provided in the auditorium – two next to the stage for the Gents and two in the rear central isle for the ladies. If you wish to put a question to Mr. Zaveri, kindly queue up behind the mike with the name clip… ‘Question for Mr. Zaveri’ – Similarly so in the ladies. And if you wish to put a question to Dr. Zakir, kindly queue up behind the mike with the name clip.. ‘Question for Dr. Zakir’. Only one question at a time may be asked -for your second question, you would have to go right at the back of the queue again and avail your second chance. Written questions on slip papers which are available from the volunteers in the aisles would be given secondary preference if time permits. On your slip where you are putting your question, kindly tick or write to whom your question is addressed – ‘Mr. Zaveri’ or ‘Dr. Zakir’ or it might be put aside.
Kindly state your name and profession before putting forward your question, so that the speakers would be in a better position to answer you. We would allow one question on each of the mikes in a clockwise rotation, alternately addressed to each speaker. May we have the first question from the mike on my left so we have first gents, ladies, two… then gents. Yes brother we can have the first question from you. That is for Mr. Zaveri?
(Q). Ya… yes, respected Chief guest and Mr. Zaveri, my question is, you have spoken Non-Vegetarian is prohibited from various angles. And you have spoken about your Lord Mahavir… Mahavir advised that killing animals and living happy at the expenses of others is prohibited. Now please explain to me… did Mahavir say that can you eat Vegetarian? – Vegetarian in the sense, I mean… Mahavir never go and cut trees and have Vegetable foods – He was always sitting under the tree and the food which he has eaten is mostly fruits which has fallen from the tree – He was not plucking up the fruits and ate. So please explain to me… because you have spoken on the subject of this ‘Vegetarian, Non-Vegetarian is prohibited’ for that thing… and please explain to me what is the Jain view – because your idea, your idea is the what Mahavir says… what Mahavir says.
(Mr.Zaveri) Please, I have understood your question… I will reply. See… what Lord I have stated already that what Lord Mahavir stated, that even plant has got life, and he says that even eating vegetable food is… as per the Jain scriptures is prohibited for Jain Muni. But because of constraint, everybody cannot become a Jain Muni… that is why he said that at least the unnecessary killing of animals should be avoided. He never said that eating of plant food is allowed even for Jain Munis.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes sister, question for Dr. Zakir.
(Q). As Salaam Alaikum brother Zakir – I am Humaima here… I have a question. There are various pamphlets distributed by a Vegetarian society quoting the Qur’an from Surah Haj, that… ‘It is not the meat nor the blood that reaches Allah but your piety that reaches him’. Thus proving, that Islam prohibits killing of animals for food – There are many quotations from Qur’an and Hadith, showing concern for animals.
(Dr.Zakir). I would like to thank this sister. She has asked a very fundamental question, that there are certain pamphlets distributed by organizations… proving from the Qur’an and Hadith, that Non-Veg. food… a Muslim should not have, it is prohibited – and this was the initiation of this debate. I did not touch on it because, you know they told me to keep out of Religion – but since it is a question, I am compelled to answer. This was the pamphlet, that the President of Rushab Foundation, Mr. Dhanraj Salecha, he gave – and how this debate was initiated – He gave this pamphlet quoting from the Qur’an. I will just give also reference – the reference is a bit wrong out there- but I do not catch on to the reference – he is quoting a verse from Surah Haj, Chapter No. 22, Verse No. 37, which says… ‘That it is not their meat, nor their blood which reaches Allah, which reaches God, but it is your piety that reaches him’. And I agree with that, totally – it is indicating that Islam is not like certain other Religions which believe that Almighty God requires blood and meat to survive. It is saying that when you sacrifice, blood does not reach God, meat does not reach God – It is your intention, it is the righteous, it is the piety with which you sacrifice… Allah considers that piety. That is the reason, when we sacrifice in Idd-ul-Zuha, minimum 1/3rd portion of that animal has to be given compulsory to the poor people, 1/3rd can be given to friends and relatives, and maximum 1/3rd you can keep for personal use. There is no part kept for Almighty God. Because Qur’an says in Surah Anam, Chapter 6, Verse 14, that…
‘He feedeth everyone but does not require to be fed’.
Allah… Almighty God feeds everyone – He does not require to be fed. This verse is clear, that when you sacrifice, Allah sees your intention – He does not require blood and meat of the animal. There is one more quotation… Here are various… it will take me one hour to reply to all – I will just pick the second quotation of the Qur’an – there are two Qur’anic quotations. It says in Surah Baqrah Chapter 2, Verse 20, that…
‘When they turn away, they create mischief through the land, by destroying crops and cattle – Allah loves not those who make mischief ’.
After giving this quotation… below it is mentioned, that… ‘therefore you should not have Non-Veg.’- their interpretation. The Arabic word used is ‘Nasl’ which some have translated as ‘Cattle’ – It actually means ‘Progeny’. But irrespective whether ‘Nasl’ you translate as –‘Cattle’ or ‘Progeny’- If you read the context –‘Those people who create mischief throughout the world, by destroying crops and cattle or progeny – Not slaughtering for food… destroying for creating mischief – Allah does not like those who make mischief ’. So if you kill any animal, even the plant if you kill, for making mischief, Allah does not like. If you say this verse refers to ‘not having for food’ – that means you should not even… even the crops. If I agree with you this verse refers not to have ‘cattle’ – even ‘crops’ is there. It is a very wrong way of argument… they do not do self analysis –‘Crop’ is also mentioned there. If they say by this Verse… ‘Non-Veg. is prohibited’, even Veg. is prohibited. It is not… neither Non-Veg. is prohibited, neither Veg. is prohibited. Certain food which Allah has prohibited is mentioned in the Qur’an – the others Allah says in Surah Baqrah, Chapter 2, Verse 168,
‘Eat of the good food We have provided for you’.
Regarding animal’s concern… yes there are various Hadith – if you read Sahih Bukari, Volume No. 3, Hadith No. 551, and Sahih Bukarai, Volume No. 8, Hadith No. 38… It speaks about a man who gave water to a thirsty dog, and Prophet said, ‘He will be rewarded’. So people asked, ‘Do you even have reward for giving water to a thirsty dog?’ The Prophet said… ‘Yes! For every kind act you do to the animal you will be rewarded’. Imagine in the days of ignorance… ‘Yaumil Jahiliyah’ – fourteen hundred years ago, where human beings were treated like animals – our beloved Prophet Muhammad Sal Allahm Alaihi Was Sallam spoke about animal rights. Prophet said, ‘Do not overload the animals’. You know today in India two Bullocks are supposed to carry by law not more than 500 kgs. – They carry more than a ton. Prophet said… ‘Do not overload them, do not ill treat them, do not tie them and shoot them’. Mentioned in Sahih Muslim, Volume No. 3, Hadith No. 4812. – It is also mentioned in Sahih Al Bukhari – ‘Do not tie the animals and shoot them’. It is mentioned in Sahih Muslim, Volume No. 3, Hadith No. 4810, that… ‘When you slaughter the animal, see to it that the knife is sharp, so that the animal does not feel pain. Do not slaughter one animal in front of the other – Do not kill the animal twice’. He said you know that… ‘Adrenahive is released’ – It releases in the blood… the blood goes out of the body. Prophet spoke of ‘Animal concern’ – We should protect their rights, but for food if it is a lawful animal, you can have it – Hope that answers the question.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes sister…
(Q). It is mentioned in the book ‘100 facts about Egg’ on Page No. 8 and 9, Fact No. 13… ‘Ethiopians are of the view – if a pregnant woman eats Egg, her child would be born bald headed and would be deficient in reproduction’. It is also mentioned in Fact No. 18… ‘Some African countries believe that if a child is given to eat Egg before teething, he may become mentally retarded’. Are these scientific facts or are these suppositions? If you say these are Scientific facts, then could you please prove it authentically… and if you say it is superstitious, then why are you promoting falsehood by such books that is… ‘Hundred facts about Eggs? ’… Thank you.
(Mr. Zaveri) Thank you sister one thing I have not written that book… second thing I have not given that book to you, and I have not referred to anything from that book. So it is not necessary to answer… particularly for that book… but I can definitely say which I have already touched upon in my subject… because Egg contains excessive Protein and Cholesterol and saturated fat – that is why it is not healthy for any human being, and particularly for pregnant women and children.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes the next question from the mike on the right.
(Q). I am Fazal Sarang… by profession I am a architect – My question is to Dr. Zakir Naik. ‘Is the Non-Veg., Non-Vegetarian food, is the only reason for the heart disease?’
(Dr. Zakir) The brother has asked a very good question that… ‘Is Non-Veg. the only reason for the heart disease’. And this was spoken by Mr. Zaveri that… ‘Flesh… animal flesh, Chicken, Mutton, Beef, causes heart disease’- It can cause… He is right. And he further said… ‘There is not a single Vegetable source which contains Cholesterol’ – If you tell that to any doctor, not the ideological Vegetarian – they will agree. Heart disease is caused when the diet contains more Fat, and more Cholesterol, irrespective whether it is Veg. or Non-Veg… Irrespective. Non-Veg. food do contain high Cholesterol, but even Vegetable food – Groundnut oil, Cashew nut, Coconut, ghee, butter… all this. Even a common housewife knows – You know why? There are Ads. in the media – ‘Have Safola oil – will not cause heart disease’ – indicating the other oils cause heart disease. Simple… you do not have to be a doctor – it is a blatant, 100% falsehood. I being a medical doctor, I challenge… I challenge Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri to answer… ‘Does butter contain fat or not ?’ And the doctors do tell the people suffering from heart disease – ‘Do not have fat, do not have butter, do not have Groundnut oil, do not have Cashewnut oil’… from where did he get this idea from? – From these books. This book he gave to me… Correct? – this book you gave to my brother – Who gave it? Mr. Salecha… Mr. Salecha gave this book. In this book also it is mentioned the same thing… that there is no Cholesterol in Vegetables. I am sorry if I thought… because it is the first time I am meeting Mr. Zaveri here – If he did not give these books, I apologize. But… but, one thing that all these books are published by Jain organizations – You know… and distributed in Bombay – Cheap… cheap – I am not blaming.
(Mr. Zaveri) Please… Please.
(Dr. Zakir) I do not want to hurt anyone’s feeling.
(Mr. Zaveri) Let us not have a dialogue across the this thing.
(Dr. Zakir) …. I am… I am… I am not going to hurt anyone’s feeling – I am sorry I did not want to say that – but I was compelled. I do not want… If it is not, you say it is not written by Jain – It is not written.
(Mr. Zaveri) No… you said Dr. Zakir that I should reply.
(Dr. Mohammed) Excuse me…
(Dr. Zakir) You will have a… you will have a chance in the question answer time.
(Dr. Mohammed) Sir… sir I will let you allow you time – you know in your time you can respond back. No… I will allow you to respond back – anything you want… in your time.
(Dr. Zakir) I would request the Chairman to give me half minute more… I was disturbed – half minute more.
(Dr. Mohammed) No… No, he is too smart – We will not give him half minute more.
(Dr. Zakir) See because so many allegations… ‘Egg’… he told, ‘Egg is the cause’ – Egg does contain… Egg does contain Cholesterol – It is rich in Cholesterol, but it is not the major cause. Today’s research and medical books also say that… that the Cholesterol in the Egg is not the major villain, it is the saturated fat in which you fry the Egg… butter, ghee, Lard, Pork, which is the main villain . If you do not have these frying in ghee, butter, there are less chances of having Eschimic heart disease, by Egg. And today amongst the population, 2/3rd of the population are non responders to Cholesterol. The moment there is high intake of Cholesterol, like taking Egg… the liver immediately cuts its own production – and the level that reaches the blood is the same. There are 1/3rd people who are responders to Cholesterol, they have a problem – they should abstain from yoke of the Egg. Otherwise even if you have one – two Eggs a day, you will not have heart disease. And if you have it with bacon, with pork, then the problem – If you fry in ghee you will have a problem – If you fry in Groundnut oil, you will have a problem. Causing baldness – I do not want to give example… I do not want to give example – Even if you check here, there are many people who are bald – there are great philosophers who were bald… I do not want to take their names… I do not want to hurt your feelings. So this thing is just a research which is based on illogical assumptions – A research should be practical. And the associate factors for heart disease is also alcohol as well as smoking – These two are also one of the associate causes for heart diseases. Yes! In America heart diseases are more in Non-Veg. because they have fat. Qur’an says… ‘Do not have in excess’, this problem will be solved. Secondly, the Vegetarians of America – they are affluent. It is a vogue to be a Vegetarian, because you know… to buy Veg. food is expensive.
If you drive a Mercedes car, you they have status – If you have Veg. food it is status, there. About 3 to 7 percent are Vegetarian in America – less than 1 percent are pure Vegetarian… less than one percent… because they are affluent and they are rich, they take more care of hygiene. And many Vegetarians ideologically also… like even Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri may agree that Alcohol is prohibited, smoking is prohibited – because of associated factors, the case of heart disease in Vegetarian is less. But anyone who has food which is rich in cholesterol or fat… irrespective whether it is Veg. or Non-Veg., he will have heart disease. To prevent it, follow the guidance in the Qur’an in Surah Taha, Chapter No. 20, Verse No. 81, that… ‘Do not commit excesses’. That reminds me of a story – In School we had learnt, that there was a religious priest who ate excessive food and he had 64 ladoos, and when he came back, his wife said that… ‘Why don’t you have Churan Chutki?’… Some digestive. So he says… ‘Are bauli, akal na aay banke che bachaon ki maata, agar churan chutki ke liye jhagha hoti, tho main dho laddoo aur na bog leta’.
(Dr. Mohammed) Brother…
(Q). The question is directed to Mr. Rashmi Zaveri – this is a book I have come across which is named ‘Meat eating – 100 facts’… Please sir… this is not… concerning to you…
(Dr. Mohammed) You may put your question saying… ‘One book writes like that’ -Rather than saying… ‘this person’s book’ or that you say… ‘this book states so and so’- that would be acceptable.
(Question Contd…) Okay, here is a book from Jain publication – you being a Jain, I am asking you a question, which is… the name is… ‘Meat eating 100 facts’ written by Dr. Nameechand. And it gives a cartoonic representation of meat eating people, which I feel it is very insulting… and I mean it is degrading… I mean defaming. I just want to ask you – in this Jains being tolerant… tolerant – is it fair enough for Jains to publish such books which can hurt people’s feelings? I mean.. is this.. it is mockery, I mean – Please answer.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes the speaker would not like to answer to that – I give him the full right not to answer to the question which a speaker feels is not suitable.
(Question Contd…) But I am just asking about…
(Dr. Mohammed) We will allow the second question…. We will… we will.. the speakers… Okay, the next question please for the… he… he passes… passes the answer – he would not like to respond.
(Question Contd…) I am not satisfied.
(Dr. Mohammed) See the speakers have a right… see the… I would request the questioners not to get worried or agitated in any sort. The speakers have a full right not to respond or if they feel your question is not right or not suitable for them, they have a right not to respond back – Kindly note. So put your question and frame it in such a way, that it is not vulgar, neither derogatory and… yes… so it should not be derogatory to the speaker, or to a particular faith – Put it is a factual manner… ‘This is what is stated – What is your opinion?’ Do not give your comment in a derogatory manner – Ask what do you say about this? Yes… do not give your opinion – Let the speaker give their opinion on the subject – Yes sister… the next question for Dr. Zakir… Dr. Zakir.
(Q). Salaam Wa Alaikum brother – my name is Azra. I would like to ask – in a book promoting Vegetarianism, by Gopinath Agarwal, on page 15 and 16, he says that… ‘The milk a Cow gives in its life time, can satisfy 90,000 persons at one time… but the same Cow is killed for flesh, can satisfy 1000 persons at one time – the same applies for Goat also. He says killing the Goose that lays a golden Egg… daily, is never a wise proposition- Do you agree with him?’
(Dr. Zakir) Sister has asked a question again from the same book, and I would like to make a clarification – Mr. Salecha he gave these books, and said that you can have more books – the letter is there if you want. And these books are available at various market places – people are bound to buy, etc. Therefore I am telling, I am requesting the people.
(Audience) How many times are you repeating this thing… So many times you are repeating… so many times.
(Dr. Zakir) That is right – the brother has asked… ‘Why am I repeating? ’ – Because all the arguments are mentioned here. These arguments, if it is not mentioned here, I would not have repeated it.
(Mr. Trivedi) Please… please I think your tempers must be calm – What Mr… Doctor… what Mr. Zaveri… what Mr. Zaveri said very correctly… ‘Book is written by somebody else – It should be… it is he who should try to defend the book’ – Mr. Zaveri does not want to defend the book… so let us forget the book, and ask all questions which are pertaining to the talk.
(Dr. Zakir) Correct! And I agree with it. I agree with it – Mr. Zaveri read from books… he did not do a research – he read books which are speaking against Non-Vegetarians. He read books, and he presented the facts – Either I accept it, or say the fact is wrong. I cannot say… ‘Because I did not write the book no one can ask me questions’ – that is illogical. If you ask me any question pertaining to Non-Veg. food, I either say the book is false… or I say that… ‘It is illogical, or it is logical’. Why do you have to get irritated? – It is a book promoting Vegetarianism. If someone gets me a book against Islam, I will say that book is false.
(Dr. Mohammed) Excuse me… I do not allow a debate between the audience and the speakers. The audience just put the questions… the speaker can only answer the question – Do not get involved. I will not allow Dr. Zakir, neither Mr. Zaveri to get involved in any debate with the audience – this is not a debate time for the audience… Kindly note – You can continue with the answer.
(Dr. Zakir) I am going to start with the answer… you can start the timing also.
If I am going to be interrupted every time – I want to give a complete answer.
I would request the chairperson not to be biased towards one person only – If they are interrupting my answers I have to be given time. And sister raised an argument which is there not only in this book, even in other books – on internet – You go to the internet, the same argument is given. First thing is that… Is Milk, Veg. or Non-Veg.?… is a big question – there are Vegetarians who say that Milk, is Non-Veg. This book… I am not blaming the speaker… this book again says… ‘Milk, is Non-Veg. ’ – if we have Milk… so many diseases. Other Vegetarian foundations say… ‘No… We are lacto Vegetarian… We have Milk’ – Whether Milk is Non-Veg. or Veg., my simple question is… ‘If you do not want to hurt the animal… when you Milk… when you Milk the animal, it causes severe pain – You know?’ Artificial milking of animal causes pain. You ask a breast feeding woman, certain times she has problems, and she has to extract Milk artificially, it is so painful – So when you extract Milk from the animals… it is painful. When you do not agree that animals are meant for food, how can you milk the animals? – The cattle and the Cow. It is so painful – It is nothing but robbing the animals. If you say the animal is not meant for food and if you have the Milk of that animal you are robbing the Milk which is meant for the offspring – For the Calves. And the example that was given, that a Cow on a average in a day, gives 10 kgs. of Milk – Again, this book if it is wrong, no problem… It is there on internet also… 10 kgs. of milk in a day, in a month 300 kgs., in a year about 3000 kg. Do you calculate Milk in kgs.?… In litres – Why in kgs., I do not know – Ask the author. And then further it says that 3000 kg. of Milk, if you feed 6000 people… so in full life time, it will feed 90,000 people at one time – And the Cow if you kill… only one 1000 people – Which is better, 90,000 or 1000? Why are you killing the Goose that is laying the golden Egg daily? It is not a wise proposition… And I agree with that. But the point to be noted is, that no Milk-man will ever give a milking Cow to the slaughter house. No slaughter house will ever purchase a milking Cow, because a milking Cow is multiple times more expensive than a Cow which has passed it’s age of milking. In Bombay, it costs 25 to 25,000 Rupees – milking Cow – An old Cow which has crossed the milking age cost only 3 to 5 thousand rupees. So.. what we do… we Non-Vegetarians… the cattle… we look after it till the time it gives milk – after it stops giving Milk, we slaughter it. We take all the Eggs of the Goose – When it stops laying, we slaughter the Goose for its flesh. Saap bhi mare aur lathi bhi na toothe! Two birds with one stone – We are more intelligent. Again the argument given… ‘that see some animals you can use them in fields, etc.’… you can use them for plugging, for transportation. If you love the animals so much, why do you overload them? And further more, the Indian statistic tells us that out of the population of cows, Ox and Bulls, only 25% are productive… the remaining 75% are unproductive – Either passed the age of milking, or they are males – All are not females… Bulls, Oxen. Now what will you do with this 75% of excess non-productive Cow, Goat, Bulls, Ox… one option, you rear them up yourselves. An average bull or Cow requires 18000 a year for living, according to the statistics. Their statistics… not my statistics – 18,000 a year. So after they give Milk, they live another 4 – 5 years – Which farmer will bear the burden of millions of Cow every year, 18000? Second option is give to Jivdaya organization – They leave it open it enters the field, eats up the crop. Third option – leave them in the jungle… animals will kill them. The last option is the best – after they reach the age of milking, utilize the Milk, give it to slaughter houses – it benefits the farmer, he gets the money, and even the animal benefits the human being – by eating the meat of the animal… as well as the hide for leather, as well as the bones – Hope that answer the question.
(Dr. Mohammed) Next question for Mr. Zaveri.
(Q). According to Kasturchand Jain… ‘In the marriage of the 22nd Tirthankar… Alasnemi popularly known as Neminath… meat of animals and birds was served, and both the bride and the bridegroom according to ‘Shastra’, were Jains’. Another incident was quoted that… ‘Chenya… a Jain Shravika, who was the wife of Bhimshan Shrenik, a contemporary of Mahavir… was pregnant, and she had the desire to eat the heart of her husband. Bhimshan’s eldest son Abhay Kumar, instead gave her some meat of a dead animal, and Cheniya, thinking it to be her husband’s heart, ate it’. I do not know how authentic is this article, and whether what Kastur Chand said, is true or false. What is it’s explanation… please explain – I am referring to the article from ‘The Caravan Series’, December 1981.
(Mr. Zaveri) Thank you sister – First of all, I will request the Coordinator to only allow those questions coming out of my talk – Not out of any other book or another references, for which I am not responsible. But because I am a true Jain, I know definitely about the Jain history – about Neminath Tirthankar. Yes it is true… that is why he propagated that the killing of – that is exactly why he renounced the world… ‘That for my marriage, are you going to sacrifice all these innocent creatures? No – I do not want such feast for me’… and that is why he became a Jain Muni and ultimately, a Tirthankar. So that is why I can say, that all Jain Tirthankaras have absolutely… on absolute terms, have prohibited Non-Veg. food. Thank you – and please restrict your questions to my talk only… not because it seems … I do not know… it seems that these books were given in all good faith… that they should understand our view point. It seems that they are all distributed to those people, and they are now asked… asked questions – I do not think that is fair. You can ask me any question from my talk… I will be very happy to say… I would like, and I could request…
(Dr. Mohammed) Any… any question can be asked on the topic… the thing is that whether it is in the talk, or out of the talk.
(Mr. Zaveri) I do not mind… that is okay.
(Dr. Mohammed) Er… not necessarily the book. Another point I will tell Mr. Co-ordinator, that Mr. Y.P. Trivedi and myself… we both have got other meetings, so we would like to conclude within five minutes.
(Dr. Mohammed) What I would suggest… see the time given to both the speakers to speak, was 50-50 minutes… then 15-15 minutes was for response, then we would have a Question-Answer session, for 50 minutes. If any of the speakers would like to forfeit the time of not carrying on with the Question-Session… if they have an emergency, I would excuse them, but I would continue the Question-Answer session for 50 minutes… because that has what been the chart given to me. I have to execute it… like I had been told Dr. Zakir cannot in his talk or response, speak or any other Religion… forcefully got him not to speak on it. I am telling you… forcefully I had to convince him… you cannot touch anything else – I got him convinced, because that was a request, he has respected. Now… now both… what both speakers have agreed to, I have followed that – anything which both speaker do not agree I have thrown it out. Let me be very clear… we had said 50 minutes… we will allow 50 minutes – but if one speaker would like to leave early, for any emergency or any requirement, a person has got a full free will and a choice – I would respect that requirement, but we will continue Question-Answer for 50 minutes. I have written down the time, 12:45 close down at around 01:30, right. So I think that is being very fair and clear on my part – The next question for Dr. Zakir.
(Q). As Salaam Alaikum Zakir bhai – my name is Khan Abdus Sami, and my question to you is… Food value charts are distributed by Vegetarians, showing that the proteins and iron content of Vegetarian food, is higher than Non-Veg. food… and thus they say Veg. food is more nutritious than Non-Veg. food – Your comments please… Thank you.
(Dr. Zakir) The brother has asked a very good question. I would like to reply to the question posed by the learned speaker also… he does not know who distributed them. It is given in writing out here… It is given by Rushabh Foundation, to IRF saying… ‘We would be pleased to give you more such material in huge quantities, if you like the same to be circulated among Muslim brothers in Mumbai’ – Free of charge… hah. The brother has asked a question… that there are fruit charts being distributed – yes even we get in our foundation. We did not respond, saying that it is… it is not worth responding… it is not worth responding. But when the request came from the Rushab Foundation… ‘Are you willing?’ I reluctantly agreed… ‘You know it is not a topic of scientific thing… it is a well known fact’. He said… ‘Yes we will debate’ – I said… ‘Fine’ – so I am here just replying – why should people get irritated? You can quote me from any book… as long as it is within the topic I will InshaAllah answer. If I do not know, I will say I do not know – if I know, I will say I know. I know your question… and even I have got that chart – it gives food value chart, saying that protein among the Veg. food is more than Non-Veg. food. And even Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri in his talk, he said that… ‘Their value of protein… the quantity is more’. Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri – he said that… ‘There were only three essential Amino acids’. You ask any doctor… it is not three… it is eight – No wonder five is lacking. It is eight essential Amino acids which are not synthesized in the body – the remaining are synthesized. These essential Amino acids should be given by the external food source. The protein of animal foods, they are biologically complete… known as higher proteins, because they contain all the eight essential Amino acids. The Veg. proteins are lacking in one or more of the essential Amino acids – It is a scientific answer. So even though the value may be more, 20 up, 10 down, it is not complete. The Veg. proteins are in complete protein, of lesser quality – Animal protein is of higher quality and complete protein. Similarly, if you analyze, even the Iron you get from the diet, is of two types – One is ‘Hem Iron’, one is ‘Non-Hem Iron’. ‘Hem Iron’ can be absorbed easily in the body – ‘Non-Hem Iron’ cannot be absorbed easily. In the animal food, there is ‘Hem Iron’ – as well as ‘Non-Hem Iron’. The Vegetable food contains very little ‘Hem Iron’… therefore they cannot absorb… therefore there is more deficiency of iron in them. So even I agree with you the Iron content in figures may be high, the protein content may be higher. Then the conclusion is… ‘Veg. food is more nutritive’ – It is misleading the people… It is nothing, but misleading. I would call it in plain English… ‘Fraud’. Who is doing it? – Some Vegetarian society… Misleading the people. And fraud is prohibited in every Religion… small or big – Whether major or minor Religion, fraud is prohibited. So I would like to ask you a question… ‘Would you prefer taking ten notes… ten notes of Rupees twenty, or one note of Rupees five hundred?’ If you know the value for money, you would choose the second – Hope that answers the question.
(Dr. Mohammed) The next question for Mr. Zaveri.
(Q) As Salaam Alaikum, I am Javed Shaikh – My question is to Rashmibhai. Rashmibhai… in your talk you mentioned, that diseases are transmitted through meat flesh, to human beings. But plants are also affected by some diseases… viral, bacterial diseases – So you can get diseases from plant… Vegetarian food also? You also mentioned Dean Ornish, and Deepak Chopra… references and recommendation of those doctors. If you believe in recommendations of doctors and medical professionals… Trivedi Sir also mentioned that. If you believe in that, I will quote only simple example. ‘When I was child… doctors… when I was suffering from fever… doctors were suggesting that do not take bath by cold water – But nowadays they are telling… when I gets fever… they are telling that… ‘Please take bath by cold water ah… ’ So if you are believing in quotations, statistical data, and medical things… So please give statistical data – Dr. Zakir Naik mentioned survey of America… regarding coronary heart disease. So do you have any statistical data regarding coronary heart disease in India – whether it is affected to… more susceptible to those who are having diet… Vegetarian diet or to Non-Vegetarian diet?
(Dr. Mohammed) I would request you all to put your questions briefly please.
(Mr. Zaveri) Your question is so long that one forgets.
(Questioner) Last part is the question.
(Dr. Mohammed) ‘Coronary heart disease’… he has asked.
(Mr. Zaveri) See… regarding coronary heart disease… Yes, plants also… if you consume the decayed plant… plant food I mean – the decayed fruits… definitely it will create germs. The point here is, that the animals that carry the germs… they are more dangerous, and they are likely to carry more diseases, than plant. Another thing is that, which I have said is, that the animal food contains excessive protein, cholesterol and saturated fat – So these two things combined… that will make… er… Non-Veg. food prohibitive. Coming to the statistics – I have got that book… there is no time… this is not a platform to argue about the statistics. I have got complete statistics – that more people are suffering because of heart disease… those who are flesh eaters, than the Veg. people. Now at the moment, I cannot give you those facts and figures – that… I have got it… then I can supply it to you later – Thank you.
(Dr. Mohammed) No counter question please – Yes, the next question for Dr. Zakir.
(Q) As Salaam Walaikum brother. Bother, my name is Safiya – I am a revert to Islam. My question is… in the book ‘Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarian – Choose for yourself ’ – by Gopinath Agarwal… there are quotations given from major world Religions including Hinduism and Christianity… that Non-Vegetarian is forbidden, prohibited –and how do you say it is permitted?
(Dr. Zakir) The sister is asking the question, that there are quotations from the same book, quoting various major world Religions like Christianity and Hinduism, saying that… in that religion, it is prohibited. So how come I have said that… ‘There is not a single major Religion, which says that Non-Veg. food in general, is prohibited?’ I clarified the Islamic view point – It is a misquotation… Out of context… Misunderstanding. I do agree one thing… that there are certain quotations… some times Non-Veg. food is prohibited, even in Islam. Like for example, the Verse I quoted Surah Maidah, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 1, which says, that… ‘Do not do hunting in pilgrimage’ – within the sacred pilgrimage, do not do hunting. If you are fasting in the month of Ramzaan… Sunrise to Sunset… ‘Do not have Non-Veg. food – do not even have Veg. food’. If I say… ‘Do not have Non-Veg. food during fasting’ – that does not mean Non-Veg. food is prohibited – Prohibited only during that time. So similarly there are quotations in Religious scriptures… ‘At certain time in fasting… do not have Non-Veg. food’. Regarding your question in Christianity… and I have read that book, therefore I can reply – they say that in the Bible it is mentioned that… ‘You can not have dead food’. In brackets they put… ‘Meat’ – It is not there. What they are quoting… the reference is not given – I being a student of comparative Religion, I give talks on diets also. And they are referring to the book of Leviticus, Ch. No. 17, Verse No. 15, as well as the book of Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 21, it says that… ‘Thou shall not have the meat that dieth of itself ’. Dead meat is prohibited – Not all meat… dead meat. They say… ‘dead food’… and in bracket ‘meat’. It is… ‘dead meat is prohibited’. Even in the Quran, Surah Baqrah, Ch. 2, Verse 173, Surah Maidah, Ch. 5, Verse No. 3, Surah Anam, Ch. 6, Verse No. 145, Surah Nahl, Ch. 16, Verse No. 115… (Arabic)…
‘Forbidden for you for food are, dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine and any food on which any name, besides Allah has been invoked’.
Where it is allowed ? If you read, the book of Genesis, Ch. No. 9, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that… ‘They will fear you, they will dread you – all creatures of the earth, all fouls in the sky, all creatures that liveth on the earth, as well as all the fishes in the sea, they shall be delivered to you’. Next Verse Genesis, Ch. 9, Verse 3 says that… ‘Every creature that moveth on land, and is a living creature – they are meat unto you, and also herbs and shrubs’. Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 9, that… ‘Ye shall have the meat of all the things in the water – All that have fins and scales, you shall eat’ – Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 11, says that… ‘You shall have the lawful meat of the birds’. Deuteronomy Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 20 says that… ‘Ye shall eat the meat of the lawful fowls’ – It is allowed. Further if you read, it is mentioned in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 13 and 14 that… ‘If you have Milk, you are weak – if you have strong meat, you are powerful in reasoning’ – Bible says that… not I. In the Gospel of Luke, Ch. No. 24… only quotations Verse No. 41 to 43… Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), goes in the upper room and he says… ‘Have you any meat to eat?’- And the disciples gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey comb… fish – and he ate before them. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) – in the book of Romans, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that… ‘One who believth in eating all things, he can eat – those who are weak, they only eat herbs and shrubs – but anyone who eateth, should not insult those who eateth not – and those who eateth not, should not judge those who eateth – This is law of God’. Hindu scriptures – if you read the law of Manu, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 30, it is clearly mentioned that… ‘The eater can eat any creature that lives – even if he eats everyday – our Creator created come creatures to eat, and some to be eaten’. Laws of Manu – Manusmriti, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 31, it says that… ‘If you eat in a sacrifice… this is a law of a God’. Mamusmriti, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 42, it says that… ‘A twice born…’
(Dr. Mohammed) Brother… Brother… now… please… please… Please…
(Dr. Zakir) I am always prepared… I am always prepared when I quote Scriptures -therefore it is not on the table… it is inside. I was not supposed to quote, unless compelled otherwise – Now they are compelling me to answer. Therefore I kept it behind – Otherwise my books are in the front always – they are compelling me to reply, therefore I am replying – It is within the rules of the debate. I have not completed yet – I have to speak for five minutes.
(Dr. Mohammed ) We would request anyone, not to disturb in between.
(Dr. Zakir) Please do not disturb – who is disturbing see… when I am speaking. We will have another 20 seconds… you know because this wastes time… you know, and then my time is up I will stop the speaker.
(Dr. Zakir) No… but if someone disturbs me, I should get more time.
(Dr. Mohammed) Acha… Okay we give… complete the answer in 30 seconds.
(Dr. Zakir) It is further mentioned in the Manusmriti, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 35… ‘You can have meat’. In Rigved, Book No. 10, Hymn No. 16, Verse No. 10… ‘You can have meat’ – Rigved, Book No. 10, Hymn No. 85, Verse No. 13 – Rigved, Book No. 10, Hymn No. 86, Verse No. 13, says the same thing – You can have meat. In Mahabharat – Anushashan Parva, Ch. 88, if you read Bhisma gives the advice to Hridhistar. It is also mentioned in Manusmriti, Ch. No. 3, Verse No. 266 to 272 – It is mentioned there that… ‘If you want to please your ancestors, if you give herbs and shrubs, you will gratify them only for one month – If you give fish, for two months – If you give ‘Venison’ the flesh of deer, for three months – if you give mutton, for four months – If you give flesh of birds for five months, – if you give Goat meat for six months – if you give spotted Deer, for seven months – if you give meat of black Antelope for eight months – if you give Cow, one full year – if you give Bull it is twelve years, and if you give Rhinoceros and red meat of Goat, for ever… Inexhaustible. So if you have to satisfy your ancestor, according to Rigved, you have to give more… you have to give red meat.
(Q). As Salaam Walaikum, my name is Gulfam and this question goes to
Mr. Zaveri. Sir, in your dialogue you said… ‘Jain Munis do not kill plants – they ask for alms’. So is it that they force others to kill plants for them… or is it that when they put masks on their face, they are not killing the germs, and others are killing the germs, by not putting the mask on their face? … What is it? … Please clarify.
(Dr. Zakir) It is a very good question sister – I am really very happy. Of all the questions… I would definitively give you first number, because it is said in Jain religion that… ‘You should not kill any body, you should not allow anybody to kill, and you should not appreciate if one kills’ – So all these three things are there. So if a Jain Muni comes to know that this food is prepared for him, he will not take it. So, this is the rule of Jain Muni. When… when they come to us for begging, they ask us very clearly – We also know that they will ask us… ‘Have you prepared anything for us?’ – We have to very honestly say… ‘We have not prepared anything – It is for us’. We have prepared say… four chapatis – He will take only one, we will be happy with three. This is the way of begging of a Jain Muni – He will not kill, he will not allow others to kill, he will not propagate killing. He will not even eat if he comes to know that this food is prepared for a Jain Muni. I am happy, that in this august and enlightened audience, I have been given an opportunity to clear the view points of ‘Jain Muni’ – thank you very much. And I will now request Coordinator that Mr. Trivedi and myself – It is really going on so nicely, that we would like to continue here for hours together… but I am sorry… that time constraint is such.
(Dr. Mohammed ) Last two questions, we will allow… five minutes are left.
(Mr. Zaveri) I do not think it will be…
(Mr. Trivedi) I think we have been talking so much about Vegetarian food and Non-Vegetarian food, that we are all hungry now. I think we should go and eat – so only last two questions and then we will leave.
(Dr. Mohammed) As Mr. Trivedi has said… ‘We will allow last two questions on the mike’ – Can we have the next question for Dr. Zakir.
(Dr. Mohammed ) Yes… Acha, there is a request for Mr… for you… want to ask question to.. no.. but you should have to follow… but I think you should have come.. come up in the queue you know .. ha…
(Q). Salaam Walaikum … Salaam Walaikum. My question for Zakir bhai is .. Are Non-Vegetarian food deficient?
(Dr. Mohammed) Acha, there is a request from the other speakers – what we will do… what I will do… see but there is a request from this side, ke allow one or two people to ask questions to Dr. Zakir. What I would suggest… let the speakers in the time they are available here… let the other two speakers ask questions… then Mr. Trivedi and Mr. Zaveri can leave – Then I will give the chance… so that I am not unfair to you also… both people. So that… no I have told them they wanted to leave… so I have to give them an opportunity to leave. They wanted those two people to ask questions… they can ask Dr. Zakir. Which are the two people Mr. Zaveri?… Mr. Bade, and .. Aaap do no ko chance de dengue ek. Then after that, we will carry on with – the other two people will be given chance so that I am not unfair to them, I hope the audience bears with me, for another ten… Mr. Trivedi and Mr. Zaveri would like to leave after that – So let those two people ask questions – Acha, we will allow only.
(Audience) No, no, no, Sir he is leaving – let us ask two questions to him, and let him go.
(Dr. Mohammed) Let those two people ask questions which Mr. Zaveri has requested – Mr. Bade… who is Bade?… Acha, one Mr. Bade, and that… Acha, and the other two… they two.. Acha, we will allow them to ask two questions.
(Q) To Dr. Hussain.
(Dr. Mohammed) Excuse me Mr. Zaveri… Acha, Okay… now one question for… one question he will ask – one you will ask – then I will allow Mr. Zaveri, after you will have finished your two questions… and one, one minute.
(Audience) Dr. Sahab…
(Dr. Mohammed) After they have finished their two questions – you have finished… you two – I will allow them to leave. Then the other two, who have missed their chance will be given permission. Beyond that, those who are missing because of these two people, will be given a chance… beyond that I will not allow, please. We have to complete the programme – Yes sir.
(Q). Dr. Sahab, Namaste… As Salaam Walaikum.
(Dr. Mohammed) Brief and to the point.
(Q) Dr. Saheb, Dr. Saheb…
(Dr. Mohammed) Brief Kishori… Sir… Brief and to the point.
(Q) My question is this – I went to see a picture ‘Khane Khuda’ – There were session of three days. People.. Haji Saheb jo the, they were wearing sandal wood – And then besides that, not eating any Non-Veg. food… No hair cut… nothing – Complete ‘Brammachari and Sanyasi’. When the picture was over, I asked them… ‘Bhai…what is this? Those three days complete renunciation – Sanyasi Bramachari?’… What reply they gave – he said… ‘Khane – Khuda tha’. Mein ne Kaha… ‘Musalmaan bhaiyoon, saara sansaar khane khuda nahin hain? Who hi khane khuda hai? – Zara teen deen aur rakte’.
(Dr. Mohammed) Bhai Saheb…. Apka question jara…. Bhai sabab.. Bhai sahab hamare chief guest ko aur hammare speaker ko jana hai – please could you forward your question.
(Q) ‘Saara sansaar khane khuda hai’ – please reply to me that wo… those three days they were offering, is ‘Khane Khuda’… what about the whole world is ‘Khane Khuda’- why the killing should not be stopped every where… especially in India, Mr. Naik?
(Dr. Mohammed) We will not allow that question. Sir, on the request of the chief guest and the speaker, we will not allow that answer, may we have the…
(Dr. Zakir) Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri requested the person to ask a question out of turn, I am willing to answer… I am willing to answer. If chairman says no… chairman says no, then I will… I would love to answer, if you allow me.
(Dr. Zakir) Okay… Anyway, I will control the… nothing will go wrong.
(Dr. Mohammed) Okay, we will allow him… but a short… this thing… what… what was the question – I did not hear it?
(Dr. Zakir) I heard the question, I am supposed to answer.
(Clapping)…… It is a very good question.
(Dr. Mohammed) Okay… okay, now quickly and a quick answer, then we will allow the other gentle.. yes.
(Dr. Zakir) It is a very good question… It is a very good question – It will not create problems. I believe though you all are Vegetarians out here, we are not that violent – It will not create problems, I take guarantee – I will not say something that will create violence. Yes, I know there were on Non-Veg. and Veg. meat… in Ahmedabad and Gujarat… and there were riots and all. Here… as far as I am concerned, I speak logical… there will nothing happen. The brother has asked a very good question – He said that he had seen pilgrims going… and for three days, they did not have meat… they did not have meat.
(Dr. Mohammed) It is on Islam.
(Dr. Zakir) It is on Islam… It is on Islam.
(Dr. Mohammed) Why Islam allows like this? – No he has asked a question on Islam.
(Dr. Zakir) He is asking a question on Islam… he is not asking on Jainism – What is the problem? Are you so much afraid that the answer will make him a Non-Veg.? He will yet be a Veg. … no problem – I do not want you to become a Non-Veg. The Brother asked a very good question – that is… ‘Why there, do not you have Non-Veg.?’ It is a misinformation… I have been for Haj several times – Whoever told you… told you a lie, that we do not have Non-Veg. The thing out there is, that in that sacred part, at that time, you cannot kill any animal for hunting – at that time only… but not eating Non-Veg. I have gone there… I ate Non-Veg…. who says you cannot eat Non-Veg.? Yes, we are dressed up in two pieces of unsewn cloth… you know why?… You know why? Because it is the biggest annual gathering in the world – People come of America, from Canada, from India, from Pakistan, from Indonesia – all dressed up in two pieces of unsewn cloth – Identical. You cannot make out the person next to you… whether he is a king or a pauper – For Universal brotherhood – not theoretical… practical – Universal brotherhood. When we offer Salaah, we offer Salaah… shoulder to shoulder – We eat food, we eat together – We eat even Non-Veg. Where you got this from?… I do not know – who ever told you, whether Muslim or Non-Muslim, he has told you total falsehood. I am telling you, I have been for Haj several times, I have been for Umrah – it is totally wrong. And for universal brotherhood… everyone comes there… so that you can make out people from various parts of the world – We have to be one brotherhood. Islamic brotherhood is that, all human beings are brothers – And Muslims are brothers in faith.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes brother.
(Q) Mr. Zaveri, this question is for you – At the end of your speech, Mr. Zaveri… this question if for you please.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes, put forward your question.
(Q). Mr. Zaveri is having his attention there – Mr. Zaveri this question is for you. At the end of your speech, you have listed 16 points differentiating between herbivorous animals and the carnivorous animals. Now I do not feel there is any one in the audience to know this differences… except that you want to give emphasis on the point that… being giving the comparison of Herbivorous animals, you want to show… you want to reflect that we humans should also be Herbivorous – that is we should be Vegetarians – This is what I understand. Dr. Zakir has already put… has already touched few of the points. Now, Dr. Zakir and Mr. Zaveri, I am not a medical student by profession – I am an engineering student. I had Biology only upto my tenth standard, and there after only I have gathered some knowledge from here and there.
(Mr. Zaveri) Ask your question please.
(Q). Now here is the points which I want to get a comment from you side is… that you have said… Pytalen is there is the saliva of Herbivorous animal – it is there in Carnivorous animals, and it is there present in the humans also. Now you have said that Herbivorous animals rotate their jaws while eating – I have never seen a man rotating his jaws.
(Mr. Zaveri) See it is a question of your… if you want to put a question, you are most welcome – It is not a lecture session – put forward your question. We are not here… to hear your impressions – you are most welcome to ask me a direct question – say… ask me a direct question – I will be too willing to give you a reply… because both Mr. Trivedi and myself… we have got other appointments – We will be leaving after this.
(Dr. Mohammed) Excuse me… excuse me.. you ask your question in three to four sentences – that is all… three to four sentences.
(Q). What was the need for you to give the differentiate… differentiation between Herbivorous and Carnivorous animals? – What do you want to emphasize?
(Mr. Zaveri) Yes.. it is sir, a very natural thing that when I stated that almost all names and parts of the body of human being, are very similar to Herbivorous animals – it is for the enlightened audience to decide whether I say… whether you agree with me or not. If you agree it is well and good – otherwise if you do not agree, then also well and good. Who am I to say that you must agree on one point or others?… that is okay. Because what I have stated, is a scientific fact which I have got reasons and I have got proof for that – But it is for the audience to see whether it is – you are agreeable to that or not. My only point was that… by nature, a human being is more… not only more… but hundred percent, he is Herbivorous – and by certain circumstances, or by other some reasons, he has been made a Carnivorous. Now friends I must tell you that I am extremely delighted to be here this morning, and sharing our views – and so many misconceptions about Islam, is now cleared by our learned Dr. Zakir. We never knew that these things are said in Islam, and for that I am extremely thankful to Islamic Research Foundation – and I am also thankful to my friend Mr. Salecha, Rushab Foundation. And because of the time constraint of Mr. Trivedi and myself… because we have got other engagements, we will take your leave – and again, thank you very much.
(Dr. Mohammed) Mr. Bade… Mr. Bade has to ask… yes you are Mr. Bade yes… now… excuse me – Mr. Bade has been requested specially to be given a chance to ask question – we have honored that request and he will be given a chance now. After that Mr. Trivedi will… last question from that side and then… yes last question, from there – ladies I think are less in number, so we disallow those two questions which were missed out. I hope that would be fair Mr. Trivedi – Yes Mr. Bade – then you… then we finish this session – Yes. Mr… Hari Om to Hindus…
(Dr. Mohammed) Arey haan .. so sorry … after we conclude the session two people will get a chance to hear Dr. Zakir. If you want to hear the answer… and those who want to hear can stay back… others can go – Yes Mr. Bade.
(Q). Har Om to Hindus… Jai Jainindra to Jains… Salaam Walaikum to Muslim Bhais…
(Dr. Mohammed) Wa Alaikum Salaam.
(Q). A request to Dr. Zakir… I have all the answers of all your 20 questions… but that will not allow… kindly give me chance any, any time you will get logical answers of all the 20 questions – number one. Now, you will… all the Religions follow the God… God is Almighty – now that means one should follow the… follow His rules also. Now what is given by the God… the rules formed up by the God… Ek seedi si baat hain – ki jab bhagwan ne hamhe janm diya hain – to unhoone hamaare liye kuch vevasta bhi kiye.
(Dr. Mohammed) Sir… sir… question… see…
(Q). I am not giving a lecture… I am no giving a….
(Dr. Mohammed) I would apply the same rule, I applied to the last speaker – put your question in five sentences. Assume Dr. Zakir and Mr. Zaveri know the background… ask your question… six sentences please.
(Q) (contd…). I am asking… I am asking you the question only. To Bhagwaan ne hammaare liye jo bhi kuch diya hain – unhooneh kuch rule form karke diye hain. Jasise ke hamaare liye sab se essential bath hain havi ki – Plenty of ‘hava’ is available… abundant ‘hava’ is available. Uske baad pani rahta hain – Pani… where ever you go… Pani is available. Now another thing is food which is… which I am coming to the question… the food… Bhagwaan has given us the food also. Ka.. ka.. Kashmir emin hain – Hamare liyeh Kashmir mein hain – Ilake ke mutahit diya hain – Kashmir mein hamaare liyeh almonds diye hain, kaju diye hain, badam diya hain, pista diye hain, jake vahaan zaruri hain – one second. Rajasthan mein javo, aapko vahaan, woh temperature ke mutabik aapko Kherbuza milenga, Tharbuza milenga. Yahaan hammare liye… one second… question… question I am telling you. Yahaan hamare liye halwa banake kele ke upar rakh diya. Or whatever easily is available. He has given us plenty. Now the… whatever He has given, is plenty… is cheaper – and whatever He says… ‘No it is not to be taken, or it is restricted’ – should be… He has made it costly. So are we following the rule of the God?
(Dr. Mohammed) Sir what is the question on this topic?
(Dr. Zakir) Very good… very good… very…
(Q) (contd…) He has understood it.
(Dr. Zakir) I have understood the question, very long question, very good question. See I am in the field… I can make out the question – I am in the field. Regarding your first part… that you can answer all 20 points – I have got various students in this field… I will ask one of my students to have a dialogue at IRF if you want – Any time… which day?… Next Sunday… next Sunday – Not me… my student – Next Sunday.
(Q). (Contd…) I can… I can answer to anybody.
(Dr. Zakir) Next Sunday.
(Q). (Contd…) Any body.
(Dr. Zakir) Next Sunday.
(Q). (Contd…) Anybody.
(Dr. Zakir) Okay done… next Sunday you are invited.
(Dr. Zakir) What is your name? Brother.. your name?
(Q). (Contd…) Everything will be given.
(Dr. Zakir) Mr. Bade will come to IRF at 10:30, fine 10:30 morning, Sunday.. same format here – and my student will debate… any one – same topic.
(Clapping)…… His question, that… ‘God has provided air, light, water, everything easily available – so why go for things which are uneasily available and costly?’ – Very good question. That… you have to point out to Mr. Zaveri – he is telling that vegetables should be transported to Arctic Circle… Vegetables should be transported to deserts. Tell him – I did not tell that – I am saying… ‘If vegetable is available… have vegetable – if animal is available… have the lawful animal – You have to pose that question to him… not to me. Point No.1 – ‘You should have easily available food, as long as it is lawful… we should not have expensive food’… You told me. It is like I telling a rich person… ‘Why are you living in Nariman Point?… You know one square feet of land-apartment in Nariman Point, costs 25,000 rupees – Come to Mira Road… only 1000 rupees per square feet’. When the rich man can afford to pay money, to buy a good flat… why are you preventing a rich man to buy good food? And Non-Veg. food… in protein, in iron, in various ways medically… it is superior, it is of higher quality – so if rich man can afford it, why are you stopping? If you cannot afford, have Vegetables. I am not stopping you – Hope that answers the question.
(Dr. Mohammed) Thank you for your enthusiasm. We will not allow that question – Mr. Zaveri has said he would like to… he is exhausted, and we respect his views. He would like to leave… so we will not allow that question – but we will allow two people here, who were to ask questions, after Mr. Zaveri… and leave… because I had promised them. Yes… Mr. Dhanraj Salecha would propose a vote of thanks… after which, those who would like to leave, may leave – those who would will like to hear those two questions and two answers, may sit.
(Q). Excuse me… one question from the ladies side – It is not working… Hello.
(Dr. Mohammed) The meeting would be formally closed – Only two questions after the meeting would be allowed.
(Q). Hello, hello… Excuse me, this is one last question from the ladies – this is for Dr. Zakir.
(Dr. Mohammed) Hello, we will allow the… no we will… Acha… after this, those two people, and one from the ladies… and no one be… Acha… one… one, two, three, four… four questions – Excuse me, Mr. Trivedi is saying that I should be strict. Now the thing is that I being compassionate – I gave chance to two people here… now everyone is demanding of… What we will allow… vote of thanks right away – then four questions… two here… one there… one there, then close – That is final. Yes… Mr. Dhanraj Salecha to propose the vote of thanks.
(Dhanraj Salecha) Chief guest Shri Y.P. Trivedi, learned speakers of dialogue, distinguished guests, brothers and sisters… it is really my pleasant duty to offer vote of thanks on behalf of all the three organizations, on whose behalf I thank Shri Y.P. Trivedi, to spare his valuable time and grace this occasion, as chief guest. I am really thankful to both the speakers for their most interesting and informative discussion and above all I thank you all the participants, for participating in the debate – thank you.
(Dr. Mohammed) Now we continue on with the four questions – the chief guest Mr. Trivedi, Mr. Zaveri are excused. Those who would like to hear the three or four questions allowed, may sit back – we will continue in a minute, as the chief guest and the speaker leave. The formal programme is closed – we will have an informal four questions, allowed for the audiences… for the four questioners who did not get a chance, because of my interfering and giving the other speakers a chance. Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please – We are starting the sequel Question-Answer session right away – Yes brother.
(Q). My question is – are Non-Vegetarian food deficient in nutrition?
(Dr. Zakir) The brother has asked a very good question – that are Non-Vegetarian food deficient in any nutrients? Yes they are – It will be wrong on my part to say… ‘No!’ – I am not a fanatic Non-Vegetarian. It is deficient in Carbohydrates, Vitamin C – but this is easily available in vegetables – Non-Vegetarians even have vegetables, and fruits – they are rich in Vitamin C – You can have fruits, but as a normal comparison, in nutritive value, if you analyze the Non-Veg. food as I mentioned earlier… it contain first class proteins… high quality. And complete proteins contain essential fatty acids – even Iron. And one of the good food is ‘Egg’, which the speaker spoke so much against… ‘Egg’… ‘Egg’. The Egg contains about six grams of Protein – One large Egg. The half of it, is in the Egg white, and the Egg white is known as an ideal Protein. Ideal protein means – the proteins by which the other proteins are judged. It contains all the essential Amino acids in the right quantity. Egg also contains Riboflavin, Iron, Fluorine, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Vitamin E – One of the few only food which contain Vitamin D, is Egg. Egg is given to people who are sick and are convalescing… who are improving from sickness. You know why? – It is easily digested, contains all the requirement – Spoke so much about ‘Egg’ – has little negative factor also. It is also called a ‘Nutrient-dense food ’, -because it contains all the essential nutrients in the right quantity, without excess of any one particular substance, and contains less calorie – Contains 70 calories only… one large Egg. But there are many food, which contain essential Amino acids, which are not there in the Veg. food. In the Veg. food… what we have to do, if we require all the nutrients – A person can be a Veg. and get the nutrients… how? – By selecting the particular diet, by selecting the vegetables he is eating. If this vegetable is deficient in one Amino Acid – have the other vegetable which has it. So if he selectively chooses in the correct balance, and monitors it, then he will be healthy. In Non-Veg. food… just have any Non-Veg. food, and normally you will not be deficient in these Nutrients – Hope that answer the question.
(Dr. Mohammed) Yes brother.
(Q). My name is Babubhai Zaveri. Dr. Zakir… Dr. Zakir Naik mentioned in his speech… He tried to quote authorities alternative to Dr. Dean Ornish. Dr. Dean Ornish has.. has been a pioneer in the field of research, on reversal of heart diseases, and he has now come to be a claimed as an authority. His contribution to the field has been recognized by the President of United States, by appointing him as an advisor – to advice Americans on health matters. It is at the instance of Dr. Ornish, that now it has been incorporated in the authoritative medical text books, that heart disease can be reversed through the diet – Diet which has been practiced and preached by Dr. Ornish, and Dr… and this… this particular diet consists exclusively of Vegetarian food. Now I would like to know from Dr. Zakir Naik – when he has quoted alternative authorities… what he had to say about Dr. Dean Ornish’s research, which has cured thousands of patients of coronary… coronary disease, without By-pass Surgery?
(Dr. Zakir) Brother has asked a very good question… very relevant question, to the point – that, what do I have to speak about Dr. Ornish, who is very famous. And he has said that… ‘The heart disease can be reversed by food, which is only Vegetarian food’ – I agree. Does it make Non-Veg. food, prohibited? Do you know ‘Diabetes Maltese’ – brother… ‘Diabetes Maltese’. You do not require Dr. Ornish to say… ‘If a person is suffering from diabetes, severe ‘Diabetes Maltese’ – if he does not take Non-Veg… treatment of Insulin produced by ‘Bovine’… by pancreas of cow or of pig, or human being, he will die’. So if a Non-Veg. food can cure ‘Diabetes Maltese’… that does not make Veg. prohibited – I agree with Dr. Ornish. It proves that heart diseases can be prevented or cured, by Veg. diet – I agree. But what Mr. Rashmibhai Zaveri said… ‘‘Dr. Ornish said… ‘it should be prohibited’ ’’. As a general rule for heart patients, I agree – People may differ… Many doctors may differ – I agree… I agree. But to say… ‘Because it cures heart disease, Non-Veg. should be prohibited, as a general rule’ – then why is not America banning Non-Veg. food? – Advisor it to American government… Advisor to American government. Why does not the government take the advise of Dr. Ornish, and stop Non-Veg. food – Why? What his research is… if he is authority, he is right – But to quote the authority, and then say… ‘he banned it’. I doubt whether Dr. Ornish even banned it – I doubt… I have my doubts. Show me the statement where it says that… ‘No human being ever in this life, should not have any Non-Veg. food?’ – I challenge you… I challenge you. He may say… ‘Heart patients’. There are other authorities, I quoted… Dr. William. T. Jarves, Dr. K. Jerry… several… several. But I am more… more pragmatic – I agree with him, it is helpful in curing heart disease… not as a general rule. Hope that answers the question – I am very clear.
( Dr. Mohammed ) Yes sister.
(Q). This is regarding… since Dr. Zakir is a scientist and a doctor himself – so I would like him to enlighten me, on the 15 years of clinical trial on…
(Dr. Mohammed) I did not get the question – Can you repeat the question.
(Q) (contd…) 15 years of clinical trial at the National Cancer Research Institute, at Meriland, in USA, on this Red meat… ‘Red meat causes cancer and all those things’. Is it… is it possible for him to enlighten me on this? – Thank You.
(Dr. Zakir) It is a very question – Sister said… ‘Out of 15 years of research in some Cancer Hospital’. ‘Research’ again… not ‘Fact’. There is a difference between ‘Research’… and ‘Fact’. But I agree with that research also… I have read that research – Whether from Cancer Hospital or which Hospital, which she is referring to. I have read several research, that it does cause ‘Cancer of the Colon’. Excessive eating of Non-Veg. causes ‘Cancer of Colon’, if it does not contain diet, rich in fibre. If the diet is rich is fibre, however much meat you have, it will not cause cancer… if it is combined with excessive eating of Non-Veg., and lack of fibrous diet. You know Veg. food… you eat… it cannot be digested because, the cellulose cannot be digested – it remains as fibre, which helps in the motility. Excessive eating of Non-Veg. With not eating fibrous diet causes ‘Cancer of Colon’ – but if you have the proper combination, everyone having Red meat… does not have cancer. Excessive eating… Qur’an says its haram. So they are going against the Qur’an… they are bound to get diseases. That does not mean Non-Veg. is prohibited – it should be said… ‘Excessive eating of Non-Veg., should be prohibited’. Hope that answers the question. Wa Aakhira Dawana Anil Hamdulillahi Rabbil Alameen.
(Dr. Mohammed) Thank you very much… JazakAllah Khairan, for being here today, and sharing your Sunday morning with us. InshaAllah, we will be in touch with you.
(Back Ground Azaan, By Brother Yusuf Islam)
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Dr. Zakir Naik
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